This day over Taiwanese noodle soup Rockstar decided his outfit needed a little something extra…
Oh, look –
Hope you’re having a good mid-week, everyone…
This day over Taiwanese noodle soup Rockstar decided his outfit needed a little something extra…
Oh, look –
Hope you’re having a good mid-week, everyone…
From Rockstar’s school email..
“According to the Asian Development Bank, in the Philippines, every year a child spends in school reduces their chances of living in poverty. While Government sponsored schools are free, children must pay for their school uniforms, which includes shoes. If the child does not have shoes, they cannot attend school. When….. …..all the money they earn in a day is spent to buy food… – when faced with the decision of whether to buy food for their family or a pair of shoes – they will choose food. ..”
Last year Rockstar’s school collected 577 pairs; this year it was a whopping 940 pairs of shoes. As an added bonus the kids got to wear casual shoes to school, if they donated their school ones.
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Then the Rockstars had another birthday party at Ryze, Ultimate Trampoline Park over the weekend, and ended up canvassing to be brought back the next day. Rockstar’s at Full-on Front Somersault, the Miss is at Fling-Herself-In-With-Abandon, I’m at Here Are A Bunch of Blurry Pictures Of Flying Kids In A Huge Padded Room.
The attendants were Erm… You Should Probably Put The Ryze Band On Her Ankle… They repeatedly tried to fish a flailing Miss out of the foam block pits, whereupon they would get “No. Let me do by self.” (And did anyone notice the blurry flying child-who-is-not-mine caught in the frame above this one? :D)
(Note how high the bags and other obstacles are placed – the older kids don’t just jump and touch them, one or two can actually hold on for a couple seconds…! It’s great they have “flight attendants” with very loud whistles all over the place; they enforce safety rules quite strictly (no climbing, no sharing trampolines, at one point Rockstar got whistled off for lightly placing his foot on it (he was trying to feel the rope before it was his turn, his first time) while another child hadn’t quite gotten off the other end of the rope yet…
Hope your weekend was good. Ours was kinda…. airborne. And we’ve still got more…
(Oh yeah, and the Guinea Pig is visiting too; this is the Miss telling the dog off for pinching some of his food)
1) The Hunt For The Financial Industry’s Most Wanted Hacker: the story of a nasty piece of code, and the hunt for its creator.
Zeus is, of course, ruler of all Olympian gods in Greek mythology – but that’s not the only thing about the Greek gods. They were petty, wrathful, they played awful tricks on humans… Love the way of thinking this article about the aptly named malware brings:
“In any outbreak it is important to identify patient zero. …In the nine-year online epidemic that helped create cybercrime as we know it, we get (the guy who posted on techsupportonline.com asking about bad code he found on his sister’s computer)…”
Nine years. In the cyber version of resistant strains of a virus, The Code Formerly Known As Zeus would’ve morphed into something way more unfathomable.
“…Most of the technology world was too busy with the iPhone, which Apple launched on June 29, 2007. Almost immediately, consumers began receiving e-mails promising links to free iPhone screensavers. Those who clicked them ended up with the latest ZeuS variant instead…….The code now allowed hackers to insert themselves into the middle of an online banking session… victims had logged themselves in, so the sessions seemed 100 percent legitimate.”
“…the drive to innovate remained constant…”
Well, ceteris paribus the laws of demand and supply would state that as long as it pays more to be a crook than a regulator, you will get first-rate crooks and second-rate regulators. (What? They would… 😀 though yes there are exceptions to the rule; say, a rich guy who decides to clean up the city and uses his resources to do so… I know one – his name is Batman :D)
“…the FBI announced a $3 million reward for information that could lead to his arrest, the biggest bounty ever put on a cybercriminal…”
Real life Batmans fund $3 million bounties 😉
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2) Now ya talkin’… The Rise Of The Compliance Guru And Banker Ire: The real growth area in U.S. finance is compliance. That’s definitely a bummer for people trying to make money. Is it also bad for the economy?
HANG on – “definitely a bummer for people trying to make money?” How is it an acceptable premise that the growth of compliance in the US bums people in finance who are trying to make money?! Bloomberg, we expect better of you.
The rise in compliance is a bummer for people in finance trying to make money in a less-than-legitimate way. It’s good for everyone else in finance – because a not-talked-about-enough consequence of the banker witch hunt* is the number of bankers who had jobs completely unrelated to the trouble areas who were still affected, and the investors who claimed mis-sell to try and recoup funds lost fair and square from gambling the markets rather than exercising some restraint.
(*Witch hunt. Y’know, when they put you in a cage and throw you in the river and if you sank you were innocent, but if you floated you were a witch who would then be burned at the stake… See, innocent and dead is apparently so much better than guilty and dead…)
Oh, and this has NOTHING to do with the people who were duped – they deserve compensation and the dupe-ers retribution. What I’m saying is that the people who fake being mis-sold to in order to take advantage of compensation are standing in the way of everyone else getting their rightful reimbursements because a) it’s holding up payouts while banks check for genuine mis-selling b) it would further overtax bank books – which means more banks going belly up and people getting fired. (Sorry, but did you think the “right” people left the industry? The ones who left first were the ones who thought “This isn’t worth it anymore,” because the witch hunt brought out even worse in the work environment. As for the others… Well, it is the cockroaches that have been around since the dinosaurs and they are the ones that thrive in filth and chaos…)
Here’s another tough one:
“…Donnie Smith, CEO of Tyson Foods, told the saddest compliance story at the conference. The company employed a cleaning woman named Joyce. “She had cancer, her husband had died, and she was raising her three grand-babies,” Smith said. One day, she found a gift card on the office floor, took it to Walmart, and spent it. “And it cost her her job,” he said. “We’re tough on trust issues. Trust is a must.”…”
Umm…
You know what I’m going to say right, following my first two items – Compliance in Information Technology are going to be the new Investment Banking. 🙂
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3) But it’s not FUN… How Minions Destroyed The Internet: the horrible story of the perfect meme. Well, when you use a bright yellow gob that makes sounds – with no discernible ethnicity or accents – it’s a lot easier to make the jokes without getting flamed for racism etc… It’s huge, when you think about all the anonymous hate comments, accusatory comments and general amount of time and emotional energy spent on such social issues. But everybody can identify with a minion!
One of those things you read to know what minions and memes are. It’s the difference between why the Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtles took off while the Tattooed Teenage Alien Fighters From Beverly Hills …didn’t really.
Y’know, there was another longreads article by Harvard Magazine about how T.S Eliot’s time at Harvard shaped his writing, and then there are all these raves in the comments, and I still didn’t get it (caveat for people reading the blog hor), so instead this is what Tattooed Teenage Alien Fighters From Beverly Hills look like:
-pic from strangekidsclub.com
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4) In contrast to the intense world of compliance and coding… Couple Quits Jobs And Sells Everything To Travel The World With Their Cat.
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5) Rockstar Skit this week is Lucky Number Seven…. For One Of ‘Em.
Miss recently turned three, and among others received a large gold helium balloon with the number 3. (How old are you now? <Point to balloon>) For her second balloon, she then chose the number 7.
Me: Really? You don’t want something else? (Even as the salesgirl demurs because she’s never seen a toddler insist on a numbered balloon over all the other pretty or cute animal options…)
Miss: No, want 7. Ko-ko is seven.
So everyone is just melting as she receives the huge number 7 balloon.
Miss: Ko-ko, for you – <holds shorter end and delightedly starts swatting the bro with the longer end>
Have a good weekend, dears…
So the Miss’ next show n tell was coming up, and given both Rockstars’ affinity to chain-yanking we kinda try to do “stealth-training”… Which doesn’t always work…
The “big word” we were trying to practice on this occasion was “Antartica”.
Me (to Rockstar): Oh Miss’ show n tell is coming up, d’you want to coach her? (Way to entertain both kids, right? <pats self on back>)
Rockstar: Oooh yes yes I want to! <hurries off to where the Miss is playing on my bed; fresh meat for my little toddler lion>
Rockstar: <holds up toy penguin> <authoritatively> Miss. What’s this?
Miss: Penguin!
Rockstar: <gushing> Good, good, and what is this?
Miss: Her wing!
Rockstar: <seriously gushing with high voice> Ve-ry good! And it’s… A girl? What’s her name?
Miss: <triumphantly> Ant-artica!
Rockstar: What? Not Sophie? (She’s been naming everything Sophie)
Miss: <happily> No! Ant-artica!
Rockstar: That’s not –
Miss: <happily> Ant-artica!
Rockstar: But –
Miss: <happily> Ant-artica!
Rockstar: Oh… ok, and where do penguins live?
Miss: <happily> TICATICATICATICA <gets up and starts jumping about>
Rockstar: It’s ANT-artica.
Miss: Issit?
Rockstar: YES. ANTARTICA.
Miss: Mummy. Ko-ko doesn’t know how to say TICA!
As Rockstar, being Rockstar, begins to turn purple…
Me: Um… I think it went off the rails around the time you made such a big deal about her knowing it was a penguin that had wings.
Going after Rockstar who has ducked out the room with one of my house slippers (again), my other slipper snaps and I stumble. In the relatively cramped space I hit an old cupboard with a glass panel, palms-first. The glass cracks, then shatters amazingly easily, I hadn’t even landed my entire weight on it.
Besides multiple tiny lacerations, a deep cut on my left finger needs stitches. Both kids are out of the room, the Miss in addition safely strapped in her feeding chair. Neither is anywhere near the glass, thank God. (A subdued-for-the-moment Rockstar meekly goes to do his homework haha)
When the bleeding doesn’t stop, I take the lift down to the lobby. Both kids are settled to their dinner in the living room. The receptionist freaks at my bloodied hands in paper kitchen towels and calls a guy from the main office over with a large first aid bag. Simultaneously, she lays newspapers on the grey shaggy carpet 😀
Strangely, the cuts don’t hurt, the first time they’re cleaned. They are deceptively small, when the blood is cleaned off. My left hand is still bleeding freely and rapidly every time I take the sodden paper towels off, blood dripping on the newspapers very quickly. They want me to get stitches. Maybe a tetanus shot. They think one cut still has glass in it. I actually don’t think so, because it doesn’t hurt that much more when they press on it, but….. the bleeding just won’t stop.
“Do I have 10 minutes to eat something?” I’d been clambering everywhere after the Miss, who was arguably the tiniest one by a wide margin to be roaming across all the decks – there were at least 3 class parties from 2 schools going on in this area of the AMC, hence the especially large number of Rockstar-aged kids flying about in joyous abandon.
(On one hand I don’t want the Miss to lose that spunkiness, on the other, I’m the one losing my nerve when she rapidly ducks up chutes onto numerous other play levels with kids twice her size chasing each other at full speed. So where she goes, I have to go. I figure the kids can see me better than her, when they’re tearing about. Oh, and some of the spaces she fits into are seriously tight.)
Several hours after, I’m in my tower lobby and I figure I have to eat, even if I’m not hungry anymore.
“Yeah, it’ll hold for 10 minutes, get to the hospital when you can”
“Uh, can you stay here and have biscuits?”
“I’ll come back down in 10 minutes.” I have several eggs, oatmeal-and-rice, lotsa greens, already in my dinner bowl.
I go back up, eat my dinner, tell the kids I’m stepping out to fix my hand.
The Miss looks at me and goes, “Whoa. Is that colours?“ Umm.. no darling, it’s blood because Mummy’s had an accident. “Oh I see… Issit ouch-ee?” Yes it’s an ouch-ee, and we don’t have anything in the home or downstairs to fix it, so I have to go see a doctor. “Oh I see… Issit Nice Lady Doctor?” (Their paediatrician. Rockstar’s the one who started calling her that). No, she’s probably home now, it’ll be someone else.
Rockstar mutters, “Still kinda worried I’m in trouble. <pause> If I finish all my work before you get back can I still get Youtube?”
At the outpatient clinic, the nurse asks who bandaged everything up so nicely. Then she removes my bandages, and under the strong light we are both surprised to find tiny glass crystals still on my skin. She cleans the wounds again. The bleeding has j-ust stopped. I start shivering. “I have to use cold water or it’ll definitely start running freely again,” she says apologetically.
The doctor arrives. “Ah. I see glass in there.” Oh really? I didn’t even feel it. “Not that cut, this one.” Oh. Barely noticed that one. “Forceps.” Before I can say anything further he’s inserted the tips and extracted at least 3 shards of glass.
THANK GOD IT WASN’T THE KIDS. And everyone – DON’T EVER BUY CHEAP STUFF THAT HAS GLASS IN IT. The doctor won’t stitch me up ’til my hands have been x-rayed.
The initial wait is 40 minutes, maybe a little more, because the technician is assisting in a surgery. I’m increasingly dismayed when at the end of that they say it’s going to be another half hour, maybe even more.
“Please, please tell me there is no glass in (the deepest cut).” Thankfully, thankfully, the x-ray is clean.
Sewing the deep cut closed hurts. When you have a C-section you don’t feel a thing. I mean, you feel pushing and tugging, but no pain. The painkillers take a day, maybe a day and a half, to wear off.
This little cut they’re not going to knock you out for though – you can feel the thread pass through the wound. And yes, you feel pain. Maybe not at first, but abruptly, the pain hits like a fist. As my friend keeps me talking, I can’t help yelping and she jumps and screams a little too.
Yes, I had a friend with me. Another blessing; I once blogged that I have foul-weather friends, not fair-weather ones. (No one has any time for each other and keep rescheduling for a month, maybe more, when we worked. Worse now, because we have kids 😀 This friend and I don’t exactly talk on a daily basis.
The weirdest thing was we abruptly had something to chat each other on, maybe a half hour before the accident, so when she texted me to say she was going out to dinner with an old friend I had conversationally texted back that I was off to the hospital.
Know something else? She lives practically walking distance from the hospital. I tell her she doesn’t need to pop in after her dinner. Guess what she insists on doing?
One. (Ok, I feel that. Doesn’t hurt though). Two. (That hurt a little, maybe because I’m thinking about the thread and the cut.) Three. (Whoa that kinda did hurt. The doctor said three stitches earlier – so we’re done, right?)
“Whoa, no, I’m not done!” When I turn and look at my hand expecting it to be all sewn up, I see stuff sticking out of my cut. Must be thread, maybe the needle. Oh, and it’s still open. I look away again, but not before registering the large-and-still-growing pool of bright red on his tray.
It’s about 1 am by the time I get home. I insist on cabbing back myself (my friend reluctantly waits for my text that I’m home safe – I mean, she lives freaking 100 meters away from the hospital, she’s going to come all the way back with me and then go back to her own home again?!). What I couldn’t have done as easily, was sit quietly through the stitches. Here’s what I remembered:
1) God doesn’t give you more than you can take (even though it feels like it)
2) When you can’t, He sends what you need, to help you through. A friend I don’t talk to on a daily basis because we are chasing 4 small kids of different ages – who just happens to live right near the hospital. A friend who comes anyway, even when you insist you’re ok. Because after a couple more hours He knew you were not going to be.
3) The cupboard was due to be carted away in a few days. Had it gone without this ever happening, we wouldn’t have realised our blessing that no one ever got hurt pushing those dodgy doors about (yes, the doors got stuck or came off all the time).
4) Cheap furniture’s fine; cheap glass, n-ot so much. I’m reminded of this West Wing episode where military officer Jack Reese breaks a USD 300 ash tray to impress the Donna Moss character and illustrate it costs USD 300 because it breaks into only 3 dull pieces.
Epilogue: For the first few days our lobby receptionists are extra solicitous; the cuts heal fast (touch wood), and when I show the stitches days later to the lady who was on duty that night I came down, she sniffs, “Oh well, they aren’t too big after all, are they?”
🙂
(Ebony frame from laurencelaigallery… there’s a caveat story about not using stuff with cheap glass especially near the kids, coming up… (The kids are fine; see I suck at this whole blog-suspense, keep-you-coming-back stuff…)
Happy Father’s Day to the father of my children, to Pop (my dad) who enjoyed Penang assam laksa (so his meal maybe better 🙂 and Daddy (my father inlaw), and to all the other dads, this day.
The Miss… was in charge of… hair and makeup? Rockstar hung in there a total of 5 seconds for me to snap something before going Off! Gedheroff!
#52
One fine day scooting…
Miss: Mummy, what’s that?
Me: Oh I think it’s a huge cricket. Can you hear that sound around us? That’s the sound those bugs make by rubbing their legs together. They do it to find their friends while staying hidden in the bushes.
Miss: <looks around, then leans closer to the one on the side of the path> How come I can’t hear any-thing (from this one)?
Me: Oh, erm….. it might be taking a nap. They make the sound by rubbing their legs together, you can see this one is not moving. In fact… it’s not likely to be napping out in the open on its side either……..
Miss: How come it’s not?
<pause>
Me: (thinking: Come on, Aileen, this is how all the little kiddie bull begins) Ok, it might be hurt or even dead. Actually it’s probably dead. Because if it wasn’t dead it would probably be hiding in the bushes.
Miss: Oh……… <pause><brightens> Then can I step on it? Cwunch? <starts waggling an eager foot at it>
Me: Ewww no! Why?!
Miss: Why cannot? <Stares at me like I’m the crazy one – why waste a perfectly good dead bug?>
Me: Erm.. Erm.. Because……. what if it’s just hurt and not totally dead? Then you’d be killing it.
Miss: Oh, I see… <scoots off without another word>
Nasi Lemak Lunch Talk: Navigating China With World Bank Lead Economist Chor Ching Goh. O-r, There Are Not Enough States In Malaysia. (Say what? Read on…)
Previously I mentioned the Malaysian Chamber of Commerce HK & Macau has regular Nasi Lemak Lunch Talk (NLLT)s where they invite guest speakers; here’s what an NLLT is like…
The speaker, Ms Chor Ching Goh, formerly from the Penang Chinese Girls’ High School (PCGHS), currently heads the economics unit for China, Mongolia and South Korea at the World Bank.
(Fine, Ms – Dr – Goh graduated summa cum laude from Yale University with simultaneous BA and MA degrees and earned her PhD in Economics from Harvard University.)
Let me repeat that please: Penang Chinese Girls’ High School!! Seated with me, my friend and former RM from Deutsche Wealth Management days, who is also from PCGHS (they found out later she’s a year junior to Dr Goh at PCGHS), was so excited.
We might’ve lingered and selfie-d more comfortably at the end of the function, but it was an incredibly packed and substantial presentation and Q&A which had everyone riveted to their seats…… And then rushing to get back to work (or kids).
Anyway, Dr Goh went through considerable effort to stop over in Hong Kong, leaving 3 kids at home, to come and speak at this gathering:
Yes, not surprisingly this is a packed room, of……. how many?
See? There Are Not Enough States In Malaysia.
16 practically all-full tables that remained that way throughout, as far as I could see, even when the Q&A ran long. I was sitting at the back. I did not see anyone leave early. Not even after we finished our Nasi Lemak. Speaking of which…..
Most but not everyone there was Malaysian. Bearing in mind the big, beautiful ballroom setting and the VIPs around, the Malaysians at our table were asked (very properly and rather formally), “So which dish should we start with, how do we eat this?”
To which we replied (very honestly and rather proudly) “Oh, this is a casual dish you can even eat with your fingers <make motion of eating rice with our hands>.”
<SILENCE>.
(At that point I think they weren’t sure if we were serious :D)
The Nasi Lemak was yummy to be sure, and happily my friend requested extra sambal.
The Q and A however, was more than adequately spice-y.
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Hang on, cannot see our Q&A Session Moderator in my pic.
Dato’ Cheah: If you were to look back in 10, 20 or 30 yrs time, how would you gauge Xi JinPing‘s performance?
Dr Goh: I don’t want to be his friend already, ask me all the difficult questions.
I….. know. Watch out, Value Partners, World Bank. The Dato’-and-Dr Team ever get bored with their day jobs, they’re starting their own late night talk show.
Some others:
Dato’ Cheah: What can Malaysia learn from China’s successes and challenges?
Dr Goh:
Open mindedness;
Chinese population are risk takers (we could stand to take a few more risks)
Meritocracy
Adequate competition – for e.g. at universities; how are you going to get skilled labour without adequate competition?
Couple other gems thrown around the room:
“Is the meteoric rise in the stock market the government’s way of injecting funds and raising the people’s income?”
“At times, policy turns the highway into a parking lot.”
“You can’t drive in at certain hours for any price – say, on Tuesdays and Thursdays, only plate numbers ending in “2” and “4” can drive into the city, etc. So people end up buying 4 cars. My neighbour has 4 cars…..”
(Obviously these are not everything that was said in Q&A ok, not even close; I’m frantically trying to take it all down while speakers are rattling off at rapid fire speed and everyone is riveted… Someone want to correct me feel free to scream at me on email as usual.. (No, not really, I get very nice, polite and respectful emails usually from people who don’t want to post too much in the comments section 🙂 )
I finally decided not to paste all my notes here because I don’t have say, an actual transcript obviously. Usually when I quote bits and pieces (because blog readers are an impatient lot who don’t like to read the whole thing) I have the entire thing to skim and include a link or appendix where I put the whole thing in. That’s so in the event someone thinks my quote or summary doesn’t do the actual content justice, they can say something. Since I can’t easily do that here……………….
Some things, you just had to be there. And that’s my way of saying……….
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COME TO THE NEXT NLLT. SEE FOR YOURSELF 🙂
Epilogue:
By the end of this one, I overheard the same non-Malaysians at our table, who asked how to eat the Nasi Lemak, say they were going to hop over quickly to where Millennium staff were making the Ban Chang Kueh to see if they could grab one quickly before running back to the office.
So I handed them mine.
#Malaysianhospitality #bukanmain
What’s cooking…
(I… know. The younger one has this… crazed look a lot of the time…)
The kids almost always have a hard time falling asleep at bedtime, especially the older one. (He travels relatively better on long-haul however, because he sleeps in a stretch whatever time he finally goes down. Much more predictable than the younger one who is also a much lighter sleeper in general.)
Hence, we tried the “mind jar” from the Miss’ yoga class – watching the sparkles is supposed to quiet them down, and I had the brainwave to make Rockstar one because he says one reason he can’t get to sleep is because he can’t stop thinking about his day (this is also partly why he has a huge pile of books next to his bed 😀 But then he can read like, forever, and so you kinda have to forcefully remove take the book from him and read it while screaming at him telling him to close his eyes and go. To. Sleep! Because otherwise you will also be reading like, forever. As in, you will fall asleep and he will kick you awake ask you to please keep reading because he simply can’t get to sleep. This has been the case since Kindy days when he famously had me read maybe 20 Mr Men books at a time.)
Anyway, Mind Jar.
The Miss’ yoga teacher gave everyone the recipe to making these things – with empty Prego pasta sauce jars, HKD 10 glitter glue from a Ma and Pa stationery store and enough hot water to dissolve the glue, before topping it off with an extra bit of loose glitter. (Needless to say the kids got kinda carried away with the loose glitter, which I let them stir in after the hot water-glitter glue mixture had cooled down.)
The glitter glue is so when you shake it the sparkles don’t all sink to the bottom of the jar at the same time. She even had a combi for Frozen jars. (Oh, and another nugget of information is I once asked where I’d seen her before, and besides being an early education teacher and certified yoga instructor with some education in child psychology, she used to be on tv doing local children’s programs! No surprise come to think of it because she’s very bubbly and cheery, even when the Miss is running all over the place 😛 Sorry I don’t have a picture of her handy, next time if you really want I will ask her lah, but otherwise just go ask Safari Kid for the after school yoga class…)
The Miss calls hers “Raspberry Sparkle,” which we made with the glitter glue pictured above and bright red loose sparkles; Rockstar’s took a little more work. You can’t see the heavy swirly patterns from mixing blue and silver loose glitter with light green glitter glue, but his is named……
…….. “Wah Beh Pai-Say” <nudge><nudge><wink><wink>
Oh yeah I’ll be adding 11 confetti stars and a moon to Beh Pai Say Jar. Ahem…
Rockstar came home raving about this water bottle some of his friends have… Here’s why on this particular instance I went right out there and fed the beast:
These are water bottles you can get in sports stores (I got the rockstars’ in Prince Building) that have a built in mist-er. It mists the air lightly with drinking water. The store people were telling me how they’re getting very popular with kids (and certainly they stocked a huge number for sale thereafter). I’m still on Yay, Something That Makes Plain Water Look A Lot Better To Kids Than Processed Juices Or Soda For Once.
Not running right out for the Latest Expensive Frozen/ Star Wars/ Mojang-licensed Thing just so my kid can keep up with the Jones’ kids. No ads, no cartoons, no sugar, just a good idea on a hot day. Because of the mist-er you are naturally not going to put Coca Cola in it. AND of course the kids all need to drink more water when they’re out running about in that heat. So on this one, I’m sold.
The Miss had a diva moment however:
(She already likes water. This is her reaction to having the bottle at her table uninvited. Yup, the whole smile-sweetly-with-talked-about-product is SO. NOT. Gonna happen.)
ps: None of this is sponsored post hor…